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The importance of research

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The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:48 pm

Firstly we had a male Indian blue peacock & an Indian blue peahen, at around 18 months old they both disappeared a week later we found her in a really bad way we presume Mr Fox got him, sometime later we got another Indian blue peacock eventually they mated but she did not sit on the eggs, at this time they were penned as we did not want to lose any more, after 4 days we realised she was laying one egg every other day but she was a bad mum as she left them to go cold so we ate the eggs thereafter.
Peafowl lay every other day as they lay at that rate & they are ground nesting birds which makes them very vulnerable to predation plus the difficulty of each chick being born with a days gap between each one hatching which would mean if they had 7 eggs they would hatch with 14 days between the first & last in the meantime the first would have starved or be very vulnerable without their mums protection as she would still be incubating the other eggs, so they have a neat trick they lay all their eggs only then do they incubate them the result being all the eggs hatch at the same time so she can care for them all.
We have since lost both those birds & are sad as we had the chance of some of their offspring but through ignorance we blew our chances.
below this was our poor indian blue called chester who died of an infection.


Last edited by Eurasian Guy on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add picture)
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Re: The importance of research

Post  whitestarling on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:15 pm

What a shame EG, and also sad that you've lost both Bids as well. Thas a very complicated way of laying, and hatching the eggs, the survival rate of the young must be very small with all the odds against them. As you say it just goes to show how important research into animals are as you say. Chester looked a beautiful Bird. We have a Peacock on the farm where we live he apparently arrived out of nowhere about 4 Yrs ago, and has stayed eversince. We call him Percy, and I have posted photos of him on here somewhere scratch . I will try to find them.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:31 pm

Birds are very fragile, the peahen died about a year later but not before we spent two weeks trying to nurse her back to health we almost did it to but all the more upsetting when we lost her.
We now have a white peacock & a pied peahen they are free-range but we try not to get to attached as there is a very good chance that they will fall fowl of something or Mr fox will get them eventually we hope not but it’s a real possibility. Nature can be harsh its either that or pen them which somehow seems cruel?
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Re: The importance of research

Post  whitestarling on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:42 pm

Thats very true EG, but thats nature it has its own way. Mr Fox has to eat, and has family to feed, and sad as it is thats natures way, and we have to respect that. Our Percy must be getting on a bit, and he does'nt live on the farm, but in the fields surrounding it, although he spends a lot of time here, and food is provided, so for what its worth EG, I think you have made the right decision with the new Birds they were meant to live that way. You must have been devastated loosing her after investing so much time trying to save her.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:50 pm

my other half took it worse than me as she was feeding it every 4 hours through the night.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Laikipia on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:02 pm

That's a shame EG - it's hard not to become attached to our pets not matter how much we try. My cousins had peacocks and all I remember is how much noise they made! At least you tried to nurse her back to health.

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Re: The importance of research

Post  littlewid on Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:18 pm

What a magnificent stunner Chester is EG, he really is beautiful I love you That is so sad you lost both birds and didn't keep any of the chicks. Sometimes we do live and learn the hard way don't we.
As you say, research into looking after any animal is important before we go ahead and keep them.
I know it's on a different scale but my little 9yr old neice is keen to have a Hampster, most of her friends have one so she has little bits of advice from them but her mum wont get her one until she has read about them and understands what they need in the way of food, housing and attention and the responibility of owning one, plus understanding they don't live very long.
I think she is taking the right stand rather than just going out and buying her one.
I hope your Peacock and Pied Peahen stay safe and well, I adore Foxes and yes they have to eat, but hopefully not your birds and I agree with you and WS, it is kinder to let them be free and have a natural life even if it is a little fraught with danger. The truth about nature does sadden me at times but it happens.

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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:44 pm

Yeh the hamster research is a really good idea particularly the short life span as if you know what’s coming it’s much easier for the niece to deal with as it will be expected but as you say it’s all a part of nature better that than her to just go in their & have to deal with the a unexpected death. I do think that kids keeping pets responsibly is good training for life on so many levels, well done to your sister for that.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  whitestarling on Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:52 pm

Just shown Mrs S, Sage's photo, and she thinks she's beautiful, and I agree. What a fantastic feeling it must be to have her sitting there, and be able to interact with her.
Very wise, and responsable, your Sister LW. Thats certainly the right way to go about things with young Children, and animals. It's important to show them animals are not just about being cuddly, and cute, but that they come with responsabilities, and consequences.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:15 pm

Thank you, It Is really a privilege, as I write these posts I keep looking back as sage messes around playing with her toys & jumps up & down & on & off her bow perch, despite seeing her most of the day every day I still look at her in amazement however it is when you go out with sage when you realise how lucky you are having the privilege of caring for her when you see other peoples enthusiasm. At the recent Dorset steam fair there was two owl tents I stood watching for ages even though I have one I was still amazed which really helps me understand how magical it is up close & personal so to speak.




Last edited by Eurasian Guy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sage at 5 weeks old)
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Re: The importance of research

Post  tigerburnie on Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:08 pm

EG is she fully imprinted or just socially,wondered if you had plans to breed?Do you hunt with her? I'm a former falconer,flew a Saker for 8 years.

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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:21 am

Hi TB Yes she is fully imprinted although she is very good she is very friendly never footy she is the opposite she is mostly soft & gentile except when playing hunting in her mews then she is aggressive to her props.
I had intended free flying her & maybe trying to hunt but after watching a video where a Harris died on power poles I am now backing away from this idea as we have lots of power poles nearby & frankly I would hate to lose her so now I am a bit dithery about what to do?
As for breading because putting her with a mate is likely to make her less friendly towards us effectively her resorting back to being an owl my partner is reluctant to do anything to interfere with sage’s human socialness, I have been offered a male on loan but the jury is out on that at the moment but she not of age yet so we do have time to consider our options. What are your thoughts?
You will have more knowledge about training than me being an ex-falconer of 8 years as I am knowledgeable enough about the bird but only rely on books which are never as good in the area of training.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  tigerburnie on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:52 pm

If she's fully imprinted,she now thinks shes a human,chances are if you introduced her to a male,she'd kill it.Imprints are ok if female,males can be dangerous,so she's more a member of the family.
Problem with all owls is managing their weight to fly them free,you have to find their idel flying weight,bit like a boxers fighting weight.Too light and they are weak,to heavy and they are disobediant to the lure and sit up a tree,sometimes for days.
You need to find a falconer local to you,you have to feel the keel bone on a bird to know the weight condition .Do you feed only on the glove ?

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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:52 pm

I do have a few falconry friends whose brain I pick plus I have read quite a lot so I know the basics about weight control, flying weight, fat weight etc but there is nothing better than experience, I am knowledgeable about the physiology of Eurasian’s as I have extensively looked into that, I was aware of the drawbacks & advantages of imprinting but this way we get the bird that suits us i.e. a very friendly house bird who is mild mannered enough not to be remotely threatening & with a bird of that size with talons that big with the power she has that has be a good thing. I do feed her on the glove which she is comfortable with she will fly to me for food reliably (as reliably as an owl can be) plus she will fly to me without food but not reliably. She is around 6lb 5oz at the moment but I would describe that as her current juvenile fat weight, I am told by an experienced keeper of owls that as a young bird that is a good weight as they tend to build weight in later years but not as juveniles she was born in April this year so she is still only 8 months old, I think the level of control I have over her is quite good considering I have not yet seriously set about getting her down to her flying weight I am sure she would sharpen up although recently I have been removing her food if she does not respond within 30 seconds, I then return 15 mins later which normally brings a very sharp response so she clearly is responcive & trainable.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  tigerburnie on Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:02 pm

I think you are not far away,lots of folk have trained/lurebound birds which is fine,you don't have to hunt.I'm sure you'll agree it's just great to see them on the wing,even if it's short flights to the fist,giving them some exercise and a chance to litererally stretch their wings(even on a creance),is so much better than living in an aviary.

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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:10 pm

Your right & I could not agree more.
I could do with as many sauces of information & opinions as possible, if its ok with you I will add you as a friend on this site so if I do need any help I can easily contact you?
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Re: The importance of research

Post  whitestarling on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:44 pm

I did'nt realise there was so much to consider, about flying a Bird such as the correct wieght ect fascinating to follow what you decide to do EG. By the way you've got me into trouble with Mrs S with that last photo. I've had to say No you cant have one
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:16 pm

LOL why not it is christmas, even the little owls are great or the scops owls tiny but lovely, happy christmas mrs ws
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:41 pm

in fact take a look at this link (Mozart) its exactly like sage. brill

http://icbp.org/birds/mozart.html
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Re: The importance of research

Post  whitestarling on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:49 am

WOW EG Mozart is some special bird, and as you say looks exactly like Sage. I did'nt realise they could lve that long, sounds like Sage is going to be around a long time.
We have a centre near us called The North Wales Bird Trust who look after Birds of Prey that are injured, or in need of help. This is the link if you would like a look.
http://northwalesbirdtrust.co.uk/index.html
They have different species of Owls that are fully imprinted, and socialised to rise funds to carry out their work, and all though I would rather they be in the wild, they are providing valuable funds, and education for their fellow Owls in the wild
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Re: The importance of research

Post  littlewid on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:49 pm

I have a lot to catch up with here, so will do after my tea. Dedicated owl and Sage time Owl
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:09 pm

it wasnt so much that they looked alike more the sence of fun & how they charmed everyone they met, i am always so surprised how excited people get when they meet her, they are always thrilled & normally part saying how lucky they feel to have had the chance to spend time up close & personal, they also often say we have seen them at shows but she is so nice & so sweet & yet so big but i guess its because they can touch her from every angle they can watch her play they can smell her & they can really get to be so close.
here is a picture of a typical encounter with a visitor to Marwoodhill gardens when i took sage over sage was only a chick then.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  littlewid on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:55 pm

Obviously unlike you and TB I have no experience of keeping an owl but my love of them is enormous and seeing the pictures of Sage and reading all the information here makes me wish I could be honoured with owning one as well but i'm not too sure that would be good with three cats.
Mozart is a treasure by the sounds of it and reading about him liking to play with screwed up bits of newspaper made me remember Wesley the Barn Owl I read about, he too loved playing with bits of newspaper and ripping up magazines. he was a male bird and I remember Stacey saying that he was imprinted on her as she had had him from four days old but she also said that he could be quite angry towards strangers that came into the house until he got to know them, Sage seems to be friendly, is she friendly to all visitors to your home? Also, I doubt if sage has moulted yet as she is only 8 months old but I remember from the book that Welsey ate a lot more when he was in moult, is that the same for all owls do you know?
I love the photo's you are posting of Sage and the one with your partner really shows how long her talons are and the one with the visitor is beautiful, her feathers look quite marbled I think, they must be her baby feathers as she is so young.
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Re: The importance of research

Post  Eurasian Guy on Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:17 pm

Hi LW no her talons are really small in the picture with Kate they are really big now, she is very very friendly with strangers but it is very common for them to be either aggresive to strangers or just shy Sage generally wont play with her toys around strangers but apart from that she is great with them. the more manning you do the more familier they are with people sage is very well manned. there is lots of info in the eagle owl section of my site www.twinmoorview.com

as for the cat see below its not a threat to the bird but it would be a threat to the cat


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Re: The importance of research

Post  littlewid on Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:03 pm

I will have another good read through your site EG, I may have missed some information when I read it the other week. For the minute I am trying to remember why owls screech sometimes, it will come back to me i'm sure.
I think you posted that photo before, for some reason I must have just seen the little cat Embarassed so are you saying that cats will leave the owl alone but the owl may go for the cat? or is it a case of if the cat winds the owl up then the cat is in trouble? Do Sage and your cat interact together or do they respect from a distance?

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