This story filled me with almost violent anger

A red deer stag called the Exmoor Emperor - believed to be Britain's biggest wild animal - has been shot dead. The giant stag of Southern Exmoor, which weighed more than 300lb and stood nearly 9ft was killed close to a busy main road in the middle of the annual rut. The full story is here.

I am far from being a tree hugging environmentalist. But I loathe this kind of needless slaughter of wildlife. There was absolutely no need for the Emperor to be culled. It was a magnificent animal in its prime and its destruction was completely and utterly senseless.

Perhaps we should allow sportsmen from other parts of the country and overseas to come here and shoot the bureaucrats who permitted this to happen. Hell, we could even waive the fee and let them do it free of charge.

I completely agree TT. The death of the Emperor is a disgrace, and who ever gave the licience out for it to happen should be the one thats shot not the Deer. Fine if the Deer are old, and it will save them suffering, but to murder, and I dont think thats to strong a word a magnificent animal like the Emperor is disgusting, and I know whos head I would like to see hanging on my wall.
The Emperor was a really magnificent specimen. I posted a story about him in the Daily Mail some time ago. To think that his genes may not be carried on this year, as he may not have mated yet is beyond thinking about.

To view the Daily Male story click https://wildaboutanimals.forumotion.net/british-wildlife-news-f12/return-of-the-emperor-t522.htm

WS RIP Emperor

I've just read TT's post and WS's previous post on the magnificent Emperor. I have also read some of the crass comments that have been posted in the newspaper article that followed the news of the Emperors Murder, some people are just so un-human and I agree with both TT and WS, I would love to see the Bureaucrats and the hunter, hunted and shot in cold blood, they obviously have no soul,feelings, heart or anything worthy of life, where as the Emperor Stag has all of those qualities and he was undoubtably murdered. I cry for him but I wouldn't demean myself for crying over any bureaucrat or hunter that got shot in cold blood.

RIP Emperor, you were gunned down needlessly

littlewid-x-

It is horrid that he was gunned down but worse when its in the middle of the rutting season

You have all said what I would have.

RIP Emperor!

SM

I'm beginnig to wonder if the Hunter, targeted the Emporer after seeing the story in the Daily Mail. Some times no publicty is better for animals
WS

Thats what TB was saying about the Birds of Prey. To keep them safe he will not give the locations of sightings and rightly so! Its just a pity to keep these magnificent animals alive we have to be so secretive and not share the wonderful sights.

SM

From The BBC

I have put a seperate post on where you can have your say, about Deer Hunting
WS

this has caused so much debate especially amongst my friends on facebook. even ones I know who are not (in their own words) 'tree hugging environmentalist' the waste of a life just so that someone can have a trophy on their wall has upset them so much

Now I know nothing of the situation in the West country,but I do know that the countryside is managed by man.It has been for centuries and it includes managing the animals too.
I heard the debate about this on BBC radio2 the other day,it would seem that not all the truth is out there.Apparently the license would have been to shoot that specific deer as it had been identified for removal,not necessarily as part of a cull.
Money would have been paid to shoot a "royal" and that money is used to pay for other wildlife projects.
In Scotland the numbers of deer are huge and as there are no natural predators,due to mans interference in the past,so shooting is a logical conclusion to the management of the environment.

I agree with you TB, shooting animals is not the way to managing the environment that man has so successfully screwed up. It would also be some comfort to think that the money from shooting the Emperor would go towards other wildlife projects but i wonder if we will ever be told what project it will go towards.
Rightly or wrongly I am a great believer in wildlife managing itself, it often does a wonderful job. Why should an animal be murdered because it is older and perceived it can no longer contribute or because its numbers are believed to be growing. The world is over populated by man and many two legged creatures do not contribute to this world or are perceived to be very old, but no-one is paid to take us out, why should it be any different for the animals of this world.

littlewid-x-

Mans interference has rarely passed without some catastrophic consequences,but the removal of woodland and the planting of hedges created what many now think as our "natural" countryside,which it isn't of course.But having interfered,we now have created a habitat that wildlife has colonised,so we have to continue managing it.
Control of the environment has been affected in other ways,introduction of alien species such as plants,birds,mammals and even worms have their impact.
Control of some species has to be undertaken,himalayan balsam and japanese knotweed is accepted as they are invasive.It becomes more emotive when it's mammals,badger culls,fox hunting and stalking are difficult to place easily in our conscience.
Not saying that all of it is right,but to do nothing is not always a viable option.I base this on questioning those involved,both sides of the debate.I have been convinced that shooting is not cruel,now what is shot is,however always going to be contentious.

It is always going to be more contentious when talking about animals being shot TB. Whether it's for so called sport or number control. Animals are living, breathing, feeling, reproducing creatures, they are not made of stone but are often treated as though they are worthless. I know I would like all wildlife to manage itself but I am also aware that sometimes man thinks he does his best by lending a hand. In the case of the Emporer, what annoyed me was the fact he wasn't old, he was in his prime and it was in the middle of the rutting season. It reminds me of the stupid woman who killed an elephant with a cross bow just because she could, it was done for no reason and it appears that the killing of the Emporer was done for the same reason, just because they held a licence to shoot. I could get a gun licence but it doesn't give me the right to shoot a man just because I have a gun and a licence.
Often the rutting season will take out the weakest Deer, so mans intervention is not always needed. Maybe I am blinkered about animals but sometimes things do happen to them which are just plain cruel.

littlewid-x-

I have to agree with you there TB, as I have said before if its because Animals need culling because they have grown to many for the habitat they are in then I fully understand that. If an Animal is old, injured, or sick then to save them suffering I understand that, and wirh Animals like the Deer a shot is the best way of doing it. My argument in this case, is that none of the above applied. The Emperor was on the Leck, and according to locals winning his fights, he was shot in the middle of the rut. If after the rut had finished, and it was clear the he was worn out, and not likely to survive the winter then fine take the shot then. The spokesman for the Shooting Ass defended the hunter saying that the Animal was 12 years old, and unlikely to survive, yet according to the Daily Mail story I posted, you can't tell how old a Deer is untill its dead by its teeth. None of the above excuses applied to the Emperor. If as you say TB, on BBC that the Animal was identified for removal, why has'nt that come out, and the reasons given for the removal. It seems clear to me that the hunter saw the Daily Mail story earlier this month, and went after him for his own glory. It was a trophy shot, not a humaine shot, and thats what makes me angry
WS

I agree with your last sentance WS, it was definiately a trophy shot, just as I said about the woman who killed the elephant, it was done just because he could, not for any other reason. Just sick.
littlewid-x-

I have just read this in the Telegraph. There seems to be some confusion over the Emporers death. Is it just a cover to protect him or is he really dead?
I am also with Brian May's coments and also his challenge for the so called Hunter to come forward.
Heres the link to the story from todays Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/8090993/Mystery-surrounds-death-of-the-Emperor-as-locals-claim-he-may-be-alive.html

littlewid-x-

I had heard this today from a friend, it looks like no one is absolutely sure, but going by the Farmers whos land he used to roam on it still looks like it was the Emperor who was shot. I wonder if the Hunter who took the shot, is as brave as the Emperor to stand, and declare how brave, and strong he was, challenging all who would stand against him. I doubt it
WS

As I said I do not know the circumstances of this particular shoot.I have spoken to people who are involved in shooting when I've been fishing.Most of the people involved in ghillie work with salmon,move to shooting or stalking as the seasons move on.
They tell me that deer herds are watched and managed,herds are marked and numbered and often given names,remember autumn watch on Rhum?
Individual animals are known and selected,some are old or weak,some are selected as trophies.Usually "royals",that is mature stags that have bred and have a good head(points on the antlers,one for each year,rough guide).All are then taken into the human food chain and eaten.Stags are taken at certain seasons,as are hinds and again different seasons for Roe or other species.
I eat meat and take a bit of a Hugh Fearnly Whittingstall sort of approach.Preferring something that's had a good life rather than something that's been mass produced in barns etc.
Not trying to justify anything,just giving what information I have,I like to make informed choices,so I ask.

theyve just said on Autumnwatch that they are going to mention this story on tonights show

I wonder what they will say

Thanks for the Nudge PPH, I've recorded it so I will be watching it soon. I wonder if they have found anymore info out
WS

Chris packham has mentioned it on Unsprung. He explains that shooting in the rutting season is legal which I think is wrong personally but I am glad to hear that he thought as the Emporer was such a famous stag and a delight to many, he shouldn't have been shot. Chris always has a pragmatic view on things so i was pleased to hear him say that he should not have been shot.

Everyone to their own TB and I do not knock anyone who eats meat and I do not support mass produced meat but being a very strict vegetarian I can never get my head around eating beautiful creatures.It always just saddens me, but that is my personal choice.

littlewid-x-

I respect your views,my wife is a vegetarian,but we each respect our own views.We both agree on intensive farming and she does accept free range farming and wild food is of benefit by comparison.Not an easy scenario to discuss on a forum without writing volumes.
I am a born and bred country person,my wife was a suburbanite,I do not labour my opinions with any one.
You will be pleased to know that more and more of my meals are vegetarian,with occasional seasonal food that is not vegetable.I'm an organic gardener,so we are adding to our own menu with what I can grow myself.

More vegetarian meals makes me smile TB but like you I will never labour my opinions or knock anyone for their choices of diet, it is each to their own. Organic gardening is good, much kinder to the environment and all the little bugs as well.
You are right, expressing views, opinions and thoughts on a forum is hard to do but as long as we all have respect for each other thats all we can ask.
My main concern on this topic is that the Emporer was shot in the rutting season which I don't agree with and that he was in his prime and it appears to be a senseless killing. I would love wildlife to manage itself, as man usually does a bad job but I also accept that sometimes some animals do have to be managed for sensible reasons, but no animals should be taken out for a senseless reason, to me that shows no respect for the animal.
littlewid-x-

Johnny Kingdom was on the BBC breakfast show this morning to say that he thinks the stag has been killed