Poaching Wars
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whitestarling
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Re: Poaching Wars
I am not at all surprised, of course stockpiles of ivory should be destroyed, it is far too tempting and there is far too much corruption!
Thanks for the information WS
Lai
Thanks for the information WS
Lai
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Re: Poaching Wars
Efforts to save rare northern white rhino continue
By Associated Press
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2880840/Efforts-save-rare-northern-white-rhino-continue.html#ixzz3MR0nP3Cz
WS
By Associated Press
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2880840/Efforts-save-rare-northern-white-rhino-continue.html#ixzz3MR0nP3Cz
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
WS. Fingers crossed it isn't too late for the northern white rhino, we are really hoping to see the 3 wild ones when we visit Ol Pejeta in January.
Lai
Lai
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Re: Poaching Wars
news/2015_jan/white_rhino
New figures have confirmed that 2014 was South Africa’s worst year ever for rhino poaching, with a total of 1,215 rhinos being poached; an average of more than three animals per day or 100 per month.
Numbers of poached rhinos have been increasing over the last seven years and these latest figures raise concerns that rhino populations in South Africa may be in decline for the first time in nearly 100 years.
This is despite an increase in support—both in terms of more rangers on the ground and more up-to-date equipment.
However, South Africa has been accused of not doing enough to address the crisis. It was conspicuous by its absence from the “London Declaration”, an international pledge made in February 2014 by the majority of countries directly impacted by the global poaching crisis to take action to address the situation.
The illicit trade in rhino horn, driven by demand from China and Vietnam for investment purposes and ill-conceived notions of healing benefits, has seen prices skyrocket, leading to increased poaching.
While South Africa plans to try to save rhinos by relocating them to supposed rhino-safe ‘strongholds’, Jason Bell, Director of International Fund for Animal Welfare Southern Africa, argues that all governments must increase investment in smashing every link in the rhino horn trade chain.
“These numbers are a wake-up call for the world. We cannot lose the fight to protect rhinos in the wild where they belong. We can and must do better," he says.
“The whole world has acknowledged the crisis is rhino and elephant poaching. We must redouble our efforts to support anti-poaching patrols, vastly increase penalties for those caught poaching, increase vigilance on the borders to prevent trafficking and educate in demand countries: we must eradicate this deadly trade."
“The lack of strong political will and active leadership from all arms of the government, neighbouring Mozambique and key Asian countries remains a serious impediment to turning this crisis situation around,” says David Newton, Director of TRAFFIC in East and Southern Africa.
2015 will prove a critical year for rhino populations in South Africa, if this tide is to be turned. “Another year of poaching like 2014 and it becomes increasingly difficult to see a positive conservation future for South African rhinos,” said Tom Milliken, TRAFFIC’s Elephant and Rhino Programme Leader. “We're facing a ‘do or die’ situation right now.”
In 2007 13 Rhinos were poached, in 2014 there 1,215 That's a hell on an increase
WS
New figures have confirmed that 2014 was South Africa’s worst year ever for rhino poaching, with a total of 1,215 rhinos being poached; an average of more than three animals per day or 100 per month.
Numbers of poached rhinos have been increasing over the last seven years and these latest figures raise concerns that rhino populations in South Africa may be in decline for the first time in nearly 100 years.
This is despite an increase in support—both in terms of more rangers on the ground and more up-to-date equipment.
However, South Africa has been accused of not doing enough to address the crisis. It was conspicuous by its absence from the “London Declaration”, an international pledge made in February 2014 by the majority of countries directly impacted by the global poaching crisis to take action to address the situation.
The illicit trade in rhino horn, driven by demand from China and Vietnam for investment purposes and ill-conceived notions of healing benefits, has seen prices skyrocket, leading to increased poaching.
While South Africa plans to try to save rhinos by relocating them to supposed rhino-safe ‘strongholds’, Jason Bell, Director of International Fund for Animal Welfare Southern Africa, argues that all governments must increase investment in smashing every link in the rhino horn trade chain.
“These numbers are a wake-up call for the world. We cannot lose the fight to protect rhinos in the wild where they belong. We can and must do better," he says.
“The whole world has acknowledged the crisis is rhino and elephant poaching. We must redouble our efforts to support anti-poaching patrols, vastly increase penalties for those caught poaching, increase vigilance on the borders to prevent trafficking and educate in demand countries: we must eradicate this deadly trade."
“The lack of strong political will and active leadership from all arms of the government, neighbouring Mozambique and key Asian countries remains a serious impediment to turning this crisis situation around,” says David Newton, Director of TRAFFIC in East and Southern Africa.
2015 will prove a critical year for rhino populations in South Africa, if this tide is to be turned. “Another year of poaching like 2014 and it becomes increasingly difficult to see a positive conservation future for South African rhinos,” said Tom Milliken, TRAFFIC’s Elephant and Rhino Programme Leader. “We're facing a ‘do or die’ situation right now.”
In 2007 13 Rhinos were poached, in 2014 there 1,215 That's a hell on an increase
WS
Poacher Caught after 2 yrs
Notorious Nepalese rhino poacher caught after two years on the run
A notorious Nepalese poacher, Rajkumar Praja, who is alleged to have been implicated in the deaths of 19 rhinos over a six-year period, has been tracked down and caught, reports WWF.
Two years ago Praja fled from Nepal as the police closed in on the criminal gang of which he was the ringleader.
At that time, the Nepal Police, with the support of the Nepalese Army and the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Conservation, arrested more than a dozen members of his criminal gang operating in the world famous Chitwan National Park, but Praja eluded capture.
He became the subject of an INTERPOL Red Notice – or international arrest warrant – and was finally found in Malaysia in January and extradited to Nepal this week.
He now faces a lengthy jail sentence of 15 years, handed down in absentia, for rhino poaching and trafficking in rhino horns.
Praja’s arrest is another cause for celebration in a country that is leading the way in the fight against wildlife crime.
The government of Nepal – through its enforcement agencies and collaboration with local communities and conservation partners such as WWF – has achieved remarkable success in recent years in the fight against poaching, particularly by dismantling criminal networks operating both inside and outside protected areas.
“The capture and jailing of Nepal's most wanted poacher shows how serious the government is about tackling wildlife crime and how determined it is to ensure that poaching kingpins, like Rajkumar Praja, pay for their crimes,” says Anil Manandhar, Country Representative of WWF Nepal.
“What we have achieved with the arrest of Rajkumar Praja is a testament to how law enforcement agencies can utilize INTERPOL resources to share information and coordinate beyond national boundaries to combat transnational organised crime,” says DIGP Hemant Malla Thakuri, Director of the Nepal Police Central Investigation Bureau.
“WWF Nepal congratulates the Nepalese and Malaysian governments and INTERPOL for their work, which shows that wildlife criminals can run but they can't hide,” says Manandhar.
"Poaching still remains a threat to Nepal's endangered wildlife, but Praja's arrest is another major step on the road to zero-poaching.”
WS
A notorious Nepalese poacher, Rajkumar Praja, who is alleged to have been implicated in the deaths of 19 rhinos over a six-year period, has been tracked down and caught, reports WWF.
Two years ago Praja fled from Nepal as the police closed in on the criminal gang of which he was the ringleader.
At that time, the Nepal Police, with the support of the Nepalese Army and the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Conservation, arrested more than a dozen members of his criminal gang operating in the world famous Chitwan National Park, but Praja eluded capture.
He became the subject of an INTERPOL Red Notice – or international arrest warrant – and was finally found in Malaysia in January and extradited to Nepal this week.
He now faces a lengthy jail sentence of 15 years, handed down in absentia, for rhino poaching and trafficking in rhino horns.
Praja’s arrest is another cause for celebration in a country that is leading the way in the fight against wildlife crime.
The government of Nepal – through its enforcement agencies and collaboration with local communities and conservation partners such as WWF – has achieved remarkable success in recent years in the fight against poaching, particularly by dismantling criminal networks operating both inside and outside protected areas.
“The capture and jailing of Nepal's most wanted poacher shows how serious the government is about tackling wildlife crime and how determined it is to ensure that poaching kingpins, like Rajkumar Praja, pay for their crimes,” says Anil Manandhar, Country Representative of WWF Nepal.
“What we have achieved with the arrest of Rajkumar Praja is a testament to how law enforcement agencies can utilize INTERPOL resources to share information and coordinate beyond national boundaries to combat transnational organised crime,” says DIGP Hemant Malla Thakuri, Director of the Nepal Police Central Investigation Bureau.
“WWF Nepal congratulates the Nepalese and Malaysian governments and INTERPOL for their work, which shows that wildlife criminals can run but they can't hide,” says Manandhar.
"Poaching still remains a threat to Nepal's endangered wildlife, but Praja's arrest is another major step on the road to zero-poaching.”
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
Another Asia Update to the one above
DNA analysis is latest weapon in combating illegal ivory trade
news/2010_jan/elephant_bull
DNA proves conclusively whether ivory comes from African or Asian elephants
A collaborative project between Thailand’s Department of National Parks, the Wildlife and Plant Conservation (DNP) and TRAFFIC, the wildlife trade monitoring network, has trialled forensic DNA examination of ivory products commonly available in local markets to assess their origins.
One hundred and sixty items of small ivory products legally acquired by TRAFFIC researchers, primarily from retail outlets in Bangkok, were subjected to DNA analysis at the DNP’s Wildlife Forensics Crime Unit (WIFOS Laboratory).
The aim of the exercise was to determine whether the ivory products were made from African Elephant or Asian Elephant tusks.
The forensic results showed that African Elephant ivory accounted for a majority of the items tested.
Whilst the relatively small number of samples cannot be considered as representative of the entire ivory market in Thailand, it indicates that African Elephant ivory is prominently represented in the retail outlets in Bangkok.
This capability to identify the source of the ivory supports the enforcement component of Thailand’s revised National Ivory Action Plan (NIAP) submitted to CITES in September 2014.
The plan was developed to control the ivory trade in Thailand and strengthen measures to prevent illegal international trade.
“The ability to use DNA and other forensic expertise provides great support to law enforcement,” said Adisorn Noochdumrong, Acting Deputy Director General of DNP.
“We are deeply concerned by these findings which come just at the moment a nationwide ivory product registration exercise is being conducted pursuant to recently enacted legislation to strengthen ivory trade controls in Thailand.”
In January 2015, the Thai government passed new legislation to regulate and control the possession and trade of ivory that can be shown to have come from domesticated Asian Elephants in Thailand.
With the passing of the Elephant Ivory Act, anyone in possession of ivory – whether as personal effects or for commercial purposes – must register all items in their possession with the DNP from January 22 until April 21, 2015.
Penalties for failing to do so could result in up to three years imprisonment and/or a maximum fine of Thai Baht 6 million (nearly USD200,000).
“We remind anyone registering possession of raw ivory or ivory products under Thailand’s new laws that African Elephant ivory is strictly prohibited and ineligible for sale in Thailand,” said Mr. Noochdumrong.
TRAFFIC has applauded the Thai authorities for using and highlighting the opportunities for DNA testing to determine the elephant species behind the ivory products found locally for sale.
“This represents a new front in the country’s capability to police the local ivory market and meet the requirements of CITES, which Thailand joined in 1983,” said Dr Chris Shepherd, the Director of TRAFFIC in Southeast Asia
WS
DNA analysis is latest weapon in combating illegal ivory trade
news/2010_jan/elephant_bull
DNA proves conclusively whether ivory comes from African or Asian elephants
A collaborative project between Thailand’s Department of National Parks, the Wildlife and Plant Conservation (DNP) and TRAFFIC, the wildlife trade monitoring network, has trialled forensic DNA examination of ivory products commonly available in local markets to assess their origins.
One hundred and sixty items of small ivory products legally acquired by TRAFFIC researchers, primarily from retail outlets in Bangkok, were subjected to DNA analysis at the DNP’s Wildlife Forensics Crime Unit (WIFOS Laboratory).
The aim of the exercise was to determine whether the ivory products were made from African Elephant or Asian Elephant tusks.
The forensic results showed that African Elephant ivory accounted for a majority of the items tested.
Whilst the relatively small number of samples cannot be considered as representative of the entire ivory market in Thailand, it indicates that African Elephant ivory is prominently represented in the retail outlets in Bangkok.
This capability to identify the source of the ivory supports the enforcement component of Thailand’s revised National Ivory Action Plan (NIAP) submitted to CITES in September 2014.
The plan was developed to control the ivory trade in Thailand and strengthen measures to prevent illegal international trade.
“The ability to use DNA and other forensic expertise provides great support to law enforcement,” said Adisorn Noochdumrong, Acting Deputy Director General of DNP.
“We are deeply concerned by these findings which come just at the moment a nationwide ivory product registration exercise is being conducted pursuant to recently enacted legislation to strengthen ivory trade controls in Thailand.”
In January 2015, the Thai government passed new legislation to regulate and control the possession and trade of ivory that can be shown to have come from domesticated Asian Elephants in Thailand.
With the passing of the Elephant Ivory Act, anyone in possession of ivory – whether as personal effects or for commercial purposes – must register all items in their possession with the DNP from January 22 until April 21, 2015.
Penalties for failing to do so could result in up to three years imprisonment and/or a maximum fine of Thai Baht 6 million (nearly USD200,000).
“We remind anyone registering possession of raw ivory or ivory products under Thailand’s new laws that African Elephant ivory is strictly prohibited and ineligible for sale in Thailand,” said Mr. Noochdumrong.
TRAFFIC has applauded the Thai authorities for using and highlighting the opportunities for DNA testing to determine the elephant species behind the ivory products found locally for sale.
“This represents a new front in the country’s capability to police the local ivory market and meet the requirements of CITES, which Thailand joined in 1983,” said Dr Chris Shepherd, the Director of TRAFFIC in Southeast Asia
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
Thanks for those 3 updates and news WS - good to know poachers are being caught and convicted but the poaching numbers are seriously distressing.
Lai
Lai
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Kenya Burns Ivory
Kenyan ivory burnt by President Uhuru Kenyatta
In the fight against poaching
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-31716134
WS
In the fight against poaching
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-31716134
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
and let's hope that sends a message to the Far East.
Lai
Lai
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Re: Poaching Wars
Doesn't look as though the message has got there yet. Not Elephants, or Rhinos this time, but another species under threat of extinction because of Chinas greed for Ivory.
Chinese lust for ivory could kill of world's weirdest bird - the helmeted hornbill whose ivory fetched £4,000 per kilo (three times that of an elephant)
The helmeted hornbill of the Borneo rainforest is being driven to extinction
It is due to a surge in the black-market demand for its ivory in China
The ivory is now worth three times more than that of elephants
Report says the bird is the latest victim of organised wildlife crime
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994995/Chinese-lust-ivory-kill-world-s-weirdest-bird-helmeted-hornbill-ivory-fetched-4-000-kilo-three-times-elephant.html#ixzz3UXz84F1U
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
WS
Chinese lust for ivory could kill of world's weirdest bird - the helmeted hornbill whose ivory fetched £4,000 per kilo (three times that of an elephant)
The helmeted hornbill of the Borneo rainforest is being driven to extinction
It is due to a surge in the black-market demand for its ivory in China
The ivory is now worth three times more than that of elephants
Report says the bird is the latest victim of organised wildlife crime
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994995/Chinese-lust-ivory-kill-world-s-weirdest-bird-helmeted-hornbill-ivory-fetched-4-000-kilo-three-times-elephant.html#ixzz3UXz84F1U
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
Thanks for the link WS. I really am beginning to despair of the far east and their obsession with ivory, horn, bone etc. Frankly I don't want to put in to print how I feel about that part of the world.
Lai
Lai
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Re: Poaching Wars
U.S. Will Allow Hunters to Bring Home Rhino Trophies
Animal advocates condemn the decision to allow two Americans to import body parts from black rhinos in Namibia
By Brian Clark Howard, National Geographic
PUBLISHED March 26, 2015
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/03/150326-black-rhino-trophy-hunting-namibia-approval-conservation/
Its not just the far East Lai
WS
Animal advocates condemn the decision to allow two Americans to import body parts from black rhinos in Namibia
By Brian Clark Howard, National Geographic
PUBLISHED March 26, 2015
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/03/150326-black-rhino-trophy-hunting-namibia-approval-conservation/
Its not just the far East Lai
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
Deary, deary me . . . "In short, the agency said the permit requests meet the legal standard of allowing limited hunting of an endangered species to benefit its conservation overall"
Doogs- Moderator
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Re: Poaching Wars
I agree Doogs, I surely do not understand this.
Thanks for letting us know WS - I am deeply saddened and shocked.
Lai
Thanks for letting us know WS - I am deeply saddened and shocked.
Lai
Laikipia- Moderator
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Re: Poaching Wars
Hi everybody,
I have not posted for a while - I totally overhauled my entire African wildlife site and deleted about a third of the pages in the process (that did not meet the required standard) in the process during last few weeks.
I know this forum always have the same emotional response about hunting.
However the unemotional – more intellectual question is - can trophy hunting ever be a useful tool for conservation?
The initial emotional response in this forum is usually - how can the killing of an endangered animal for sport contribute to conservation?
I hate hunting like all of you but have also learned over time that the answer is more complicated. The question that always bothers me is whether the money raised from hunting permits is actually used for conservation which is what the proponents promise.
I do not know what drives people to hunt for sport but I know that more than 80% of them prefer hunting in an area where they knew that a portion of the proceeds went back conservation (research proves this).
Some of the most avid hunters I know are more sensitive to conservation concerns than any other people I know.
The hard facts in my country is that the legalization of white rhino hunting in South Africa motivated private landowners to breed with them. The result of this: An increase in white rhinos from fewer than 100 to more than 11,000.
I know it a delicate issue in this forum but sometimes I would like to see more of an intellectual discussion and less emotional one about this in order to strike a healthy balance.
I repeat - I don’t understand the motivation to kill a magnificent rhino for sport but here in South Africa our animals are getting destroyed by poaching so perhaps there is a bigger picture to consider?
What do you think?
Chris
I have not posted for a while - I totally overhauled my entire African wildlife site and deleted about a third of the pages in the process (that did not meet the required standard) in the process during last few weeks.
I know this forum always have the same emotional response about hunting.
However the unemotional – more intellectual question is - can trophy hunting ever be a useful tool for conservation?
The initial emotional response in this forum is usually - how can the killing of an endangered animal for sport contribute to conservation?
I hate hunting like all of you but have also learned over time that the answer is more complicated. The question that always bothers me is whether the money raised from hunting permits is actually used for conservation which is what the proponents promise.
I do not know what drives people to hunt for sport but I know that more than 80% of them prefer hunting in an area where they knew that a portion of the proceeds went back conservation (research proves this).
Some of the most avid hunters I know are more sensitive to conservation concerns than any other people I know.
The hard facts in my country is that the legalization of white rhino hunting in South Africa motivated private landowners to breed with them. The result of this: An increase in white rhinos from fewer than 100 to more than 11,000.
I know it a delicate issue in this forum but sometimes I would like to see more of an intellectual discussion and less emotional one about this in order to strike a healthy balance.
I repeat - I don’t understand the motivation to kill a magnificent rhino for sport but here in South Africa our animals are getting destroyed by poaching so perhaps there is a bigger picture to consider?
What do you think?
Chris
Re: Poaching Wars
Agreed Chris, but my emotions always get involved!
I will have to think about an intellectual discussion rather than my usual response.
Lai
I will have to think about an intellectual discussion rather than my usual response.
Lai
Laikipia- Moderator
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Re: Poaching Wars
I think Chris that you have opened a "very big can of worms" with your post.
As you say there is no simple answer. For myself I am opposed to all killing of animals whether they be mammals, birds reptiles etc. for so called sport on strictly moral grounds. I think it is wrong to kill for no good reason. I am not a vegetarian therefore I understand the need to produce animals for slaughter for food consumption and similarly have no problem with people hunting for food they will consume. Trophy hunting and so called sport hunting for profit and "fun". is a different matter; I can see no logical reason for it apart from self gratification.
I know you site a lot of hunters as being conservationists but it can also be argued that without conservation they would be no hunting available for them. Therefore it is in their own very narrow interests to maintain a healthy stock of available cannon fodder.
In the UK we have number of so called conservationists who like to add there name to what they see as a worthy cause by telling people in other countries what they should or should not be doing while at the same time merrily hunting and shooting wildlife here in the UK for fun. I cannot personally see the difference between shooting a pheasant or partridge or stalking a deer for fun and shooting a lion, rhino or elephant. As you say Chris we should keep emotion out of it and therefore treat all wildlife as equal!!
If people want to hunt then to my mind you must be able to breed animals solely for that purpose whether it is rhino, lion or pheasant and not bring in the pseudo moral argument of conservation to try and make it acceptable.
To my mind there is a big difference between conservation of wildlife and preservation of wildlife at all costs. Sometimes one has to look at things logically and allow certain species to die out. It has happened all through our history for a variety of reasons but that brings on an entirely separate area for discussion.
Thanks for opening up the discussion Chris.
SM
As you say there is no simple answer. For myself I am opposed to all killing of animals whether they be mammals, birds reptiles etc. for so called sport on strictly moral grounds. I think it is wrong to kill for no good reason. I am not a vegetarian therefore I understand the need to produce animals for slaughter for food consumption and similarly have no problem with people hunting for food they will consume. Trophy hunting and so called sport hunting for profit and "fun". is a different matter; I can see no logical reason for it apart from self gratification.
I know you site a lot of hunters as being conservationists but it can also be argued that without conservation they would be no hunting available for them. Therefore it is in their own very narrow interests to maintain a healthy stock of available cannon fodder.
In the UK we have number of so called conservationists who like to add there name to what they see as a worthy cause by telling people in other countries what they should or should not be doing while at the same time merrily hunting and shooting wildlife here in the UK for fun. I cannot personally see the difference between shooting a pheasant or partridge or stalking a deer for fun and shooting a lion, rhino or elephant. As you say Chris we should keep emotion out of it and therefore treat all wildlife as equal!!
If people want to hunt then to my mind you must be able to breed animals solely for that purpose whether it is rhino, lion or pheasant and not bring in the pseudo moral argument of conservation to try and make it acceptable.
To my mind there is a big difference between conservation of wildlife and preservation of wildlife at all costs. Sometimes one has to look at things logically and allow certain species to die out. It has happened all through our history for a variety of reasons but that brings on an entirely separate area for discussion.
Thanks for opening up the discussion Chris.
SM
Safariman- Posts : 518
Join date : 2012-06-27
Age : 80
Location : Buckinghamshire
Re: Poaching Wars
Thanks for your thoughts Chris, and some very interesting points. I will have to come back to this to reply in depth. As you say we do tend to be an emotional lot here when it comes to wildlife and animals in general, but our hearts are in the right place.
WS
Ps could you put or PM me your site link again please Chris. I am now a moderator for WildEarth TV, which has cams in SA, and there is also a Live Safari Drive twice a day on one of their sites. There are lots of people chatting who know nothing about the animals of Africa, and your site would be a great source of information that I could share with them
WS
Ps could you put or PM me your site link again please Chris. I am now a moderator for WildEarth TV, which has cams in SA, and there is also a Live Safari Drive twice a day on one of their sites. There are lots of people chatting who know nothing about the animals of Africa, and your site would be a great source of information that I could share with them
Re: Poaching Wars
Hi everybody,
Thanks for the sober responses to my challenge so far.
I posted it because I have the same struggle with it that you have. I am looking forward to WS and Lai's responses after they have thought about it for a while.
WS my site is at www.africa-wildlife-detective.com/
Every page on the right hand navigational bar has been revised. It is fairly detailed with an average length of about 1300-1500 words per page, all facts supported by research and new larger images. I would really appreciate any comments form this forum and please be brutally honest with suggested improvements.
It will be good to have a healthy debate about the hunting issue.
Chris
Thanks for the sober responses to my challenge so far.
I posted it because I have the same struggle with it that you have. I am looking forward to WS and Lai's responses after they have thought about it for a while.
WS my site is at www.africa-wildlife-detective.com/
Every page on the right hand navigational bar has been revised. It is fairly detailed with an average length of about 1300-1500 words per page, all facts supported by research and new larger images. I would really appreciate any comments form this forum and please be brutally honest with suggested improvements.
It will be good to have a healthy debate about the hunting issue.
Chris
Re: Poaching Wars
Thanks for the link Chris, I will pass that on to the chatters on WildEarth TV. Sorry to only just be replying, but I've been working all weekend.
Emotionally I'm against the shooting or killing of any animals purely for sport. I can accept hunting animals for food, and also where needed culling because of an over population in a species, although these situations are normally brought about by some action by humans, such as habitat loss through invasion by the human race, or the import of non native species. I can even understand the reason a man from a poor village in Africa poaching a Rhino, or an Elephant because the money he will get will feed, cloth, and help his family survive, although I hate it, and wish it didn't happen. The fault there lies with the greed, and useless medicinal, and ornamental use of these animals parts, not the man himself, but trophy hunting for me is a big no. What useful purpose does it serve except to promote an over blown ego of some so called hunters. I would much rather have a framed photograph with the inscription I took this head shot with a camera, and let the animals live so that others can marvel, at such a magnificent specimen, than have a head hung on my wall.
Pragmatically There is no clear proof, of where the money from these licences goes, or how much goes to conservation, if any ?. Should we breed animals to hunt, that's a difficult one for me, my instincts say no, but we breed cows, and sheep ect to eat, and that's exceptable to us as we view them as domestic animals, but at one time these animals were wild to, if the bye product of breeding endangered species were to actually increase the numbers, in the wild itself then I would go along with it, and also as long as there is no canned hunting at all. As Safariman says species do become extinct naturally because they don't evolve, a good case is the Panda who is only surviving because of China's intervention, but what we are talking about here is animals becoming extinct through human actions. But as you say Chris poaching is really the biggest danger of all to the animals of Africa, and through out the world
WS
Emotionally I'm against the shooting or killing of any animals purely for sport. I can accept hunting animals for food, and also where needed culling because of an over population in a species, although these situations are normally brought about by some action by humans, such as habitat loss through invasion by the human race, or the import of non native species. I can even understand the reason a man from a poor village in Africa poaching a Rhino, or an Elephant because the money he will get will feed, cloth, and help his family survive, although I hate it, and wish it didn't happen. The fault there lies with the greed, and useless medicinal, and ornamental use of these animals parts, not the man himself, but trophy hunting for me is a big no. What useful purpose does it serve except to promote an over blown ego of some so called hunters. I would much rather have a framed photograph with the inscription I took this head shot with a camera, and let the animals live so that others can marvel, at such a magnificent specimen, than have a head hung on my wall.
Pragmatically There is no clear proof, of where the money from these licences goes, or how much goes to conservation, if any ?. Should we breed animals to hunt, that's a difficult one for me, my instincts say no, but we breed cows, and sheep ect to eat, and that's exceptable to us as we view them as domestic animals, but at one time these animals were wild to, if the bye product of breeding endangered species were to actually increase the numbers, in the wild itself then I would go along with it, and also as long as there is no canned hunting at all. As Safariman says species do become extinct naturally because they don't evolve, a good case is the Panda who is only surviving because of China's intervention, but what we are talking about here is animals becoming extinct through human actions. But as you say Chris poaching is really the biggest danger of all to the animals of Africa, and through out the world
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
Sorry I haven't replied Chris as I find this a really tough one. I am in principal totally against all hunting and shooting however I am an idealist not a realist and have to accept that it goes on in the UK as a way of life for some people, including people I know who enjoy pheasant shooting. I cannot take the morale high ground here as I am not a vegetarian, and do eat meat although not daily. For myself I will not kill an animal/bird for so called enjoyment.
For me things like canned hunting are not acceptable and I find it hard to believe that it goes on but SA and the UK are totally different.
I am thinking some more about this Chris but didn't want you to think I had gone
Lai
For me things like canned hunting are not acceptable and I find it hard to believe that it goes on but SA and the UK are totally different.
I am thinking some more about this Chris but didn't want you to think I had gone
Lai
Laikipia- Moderator
- Posts : 16153
Join date : 2010-05-13
Age : 64
Location : Cheshire
Re: Poaching Wars
I think what we can all agree on is that at an emotional level not one of us will ever support the killing of an endangered animal for sport. We all hate hunting and that issue is not even up for debate.
But the unemotional challenge is can trophy hunting ever be a useful tool for conservation?
So if an avid hunter confronts you with a hard statistic like the fact that the legalization of white rhino hunting in South Africa resulted in an increase in white rhinos from fewer than 100 to more than 11,000 – what do we do?
Yes this statistic is true because humans acted in their self-interest and greed but the fact is that the rhino population recovered in the process.
So once again the challenge is did the hunting community contribute more to conservation than we did?
For me this is the real difficulty of this challenge.
Chris
But the unemotional challenge is can trophy hunting ever be a useful tool for conservation?
So if an avid hunter confronts you with a hard statistic like the fact that the legalization of white rhino hunting in South Africa resulted in an increase in white rhinos from fewer than 100 to more than 11,000 – what do we do?
Yes this statistic is true because humans acted in their self-interest and greed but the fact is that the rhino population recovered in the process.
So once again the challenge is did the hunting community contribute more to conservation than we did?
For me this is the real difficulty of this challenge.
Chris
Re: Poaching Wars
Quick response, and question Chris. Although the numbers have increased from 100 to 11,000, has there actually been an increased in the wild, or are they all in restricted canned hunting areas, no matter how large those areas are ?
WS
WS
Re: Poaching Wars
Interesting statistic Chris. However it would be interesting to see a comparative statistic showing what would have happened during the same period if hunting had been banned. There might well be now over 12,00 white rhino!!
Statistics can be used to prove or disprove many arguments as they do not always show the underlying causes for the result. It is not generally the result of only a single factor.
I do not know what the stats are for the Kruger but it has shown a considerable increase in white rhino numbers over the last few years and I am sure that it is not down to hunting!!
As mentioned previously if we can only maintain a species through hunting and killing it, I would prefer to allow it to die out.
With all discussions of this nature you end up going round in circles with no totally valid solution but it keeps us engaged!!
SM
Statistics can be used to prove or disprove many arguments as they do not always show the underlying causes for the result. It is not generally the result of only a single factor.
I do not know what the stats are for the Kruger but it has shown a considerable increase in white rhino numbers over the last few years and I am sure that it is not down to hunting!!
As mentioned previously if we can only maintain a species through hunting and killing it, I would prefer to allow it to die out.
With all discussions of this nature you end up going round in circles with no totally valid solution but it keeps us engaged!!
SM
Safariman- Posts : 518
Join date : 2012-06-27
Age : 80
Location : Buckinghamshire
Re: Poaching Wars
I just popped in quickly to see if the conversation is still continuing but don't have much time.
WS - I don't really understand your question. Wildlife occurs either in game farms or national parks. In South Africa the area covered by game farms are about 160 000 square kilometers and that by national parks about a third of that just over 50 000 square kilometers.
I think the concept we struggle most with here is that the concept of killing to conserve seems counter intuitive but think about it from a game ranch owner perspective.
Hunting practices are re viewed by provincial administrations who have the power to suspend hunting permits if it is done in an unsustainable manner.
The economic success of that hunting operator depends on the quality of the game species on his farm which in turn relies on the quality of the habitat they to provide to the animals. Logically then it is in the best interests of that operator not too allow indiscriminate killing of the wildlife population on his farm and to maintain the population at maximum levels to maximize his revenue. The game reserves also play an important role in protecting wildlife as they maintain wildlife numbers that would normally be utilized for agriculture.
Chris
WS - I don't really understand your question. Wildlife occurs either in game farms or national parks. In South Africa the area covered by game farms are about 160 000 square kilometers and that by national parks about a third of that just over 50 000 square kilometers.
I think the concept we struggle most with here is that the concept of killing to conserve seems counter intuitive but think about it from a game ranch owner perspective.
Hunting practices are re viewed by provincial administrations who have the power to suspend hunting permits if it is done in an unsustainable manner.
The economic success of that hunting operator depends on the quality of the game species on his farm which in turn relies on the quality of the habitat they to provide to the animals. Logically then it is in the best interests of that operator not too allow indiscriminate killing of the wildlife population on his farm and to maintain the population at maximum levels to maximize his revenue. The game reserves also play an important role in protecting wildlife as they maintain wildlife numbers that would normally be utilized for agriculture.
Chris
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